ASIC Regulation Thread - Regarding the proposed changes ( Australians effected the most )
I'm hopeless at formatting text, so if you think you can structure this post better take everything i write and put it into an easy to digest way. I'm just going to type out everything i know in text as fast as possible. I'm not a legal expert, I'm not somehow who understands every bit of information in the PDF's below, but i know I'm a retail trader that uses leverage to make profit which is why I'm posting this, in the hope that someone who can run a charge better than me, will. Some of you are already aware of what might be happening, this is just a post to educate retail traders on changes that might be coming to certain brokers. This effects Australian Customers the most, but also effects those living in other countries that use Australian brokers, such as Pepperstone and others. Last year in August 2019, ASIC ( Australian Securities and Investments Commission ) was concerned about retail traders going into Forex and Binary options without understanding these instruments properly and started sticking their noses in for tough regulation. ASIC asked brokers and anyone with interest in the industry to write to them and explain what should and should not change from the changes they proposed, some of the proposed changes are very misguided and come from a lack of understanding exactly how OTC derivatives actually work. I will provide the link to the paper further down so you can read it yourself and i will provide a link to all the submission made by all parties that sent submissions to ASIC, however the 2 main points of debate are: 1, To reduce the overall leverage available to retail traders to either 20:1 or 30:1. This means people who currently use leverage such as 100:1 to 500:1 and everything in between will be effected the most, even more so are those traders with relatively small accounts, meaning in order to get your foot in the door to trading you will need more capital for it to be viable. ^^ This point above is very important. 2, The removing of Binary options trading, which basically includes products like "Bet if gold will rise to this price in the next 30 seconds" This sort of stuff. So far from all the submissions from brokers and individuals nobody really cares if this changes as far as i know, though if you have concerns about this i would start voicing your disapproval. Though i would not waste your time here, all is pointing to this being eradicated completely with brokers also supporting the changes, I've never used such a product and know very little about them. ^^ This point above isn't very important and will probably be enforced in the future. Still to this day i see retail traders not understanding leverage, they think of it as "dangerous and scary", it's not, position size is the real danger, not leverage. So ASIC is aiming to limit retail traders access to high leverage, they are claiming it is a way to protect traders who don't really understand what they are getting into by attacking leverage and not the real problem which is position size relative to your capital. If it was truly about protecting retail traders from blowing up their accounts, they would look for ways to educate traders on "understanding position sizes and why it's important" rather than attacking leverage, but their goal is misguided or has an ulterior motive . I will give you a small example below. EXAMPLE - We will use 2 demo accounts for demonstration purposes. If you don't understand my example, i suggest you try it for yourself. - Skip if not interested in examples. Lets say we open 2 demo accounts with $1000 in both, one with 20:1 leverage and one with 500:1 leverage and we open an identical position on both accounts ( say a micro lot '0.01' on EURUSD ). You are safer on the 500:1 account as you don't need to put up as much margin as collateral as you would on the 20:1. If the trade we just opened goes against us and continues against us, the account with 20:1 leverage will run out of free margin a lot faster than the 500:1 account. In this simple example is shows you that leverage is not dangerous but safer and gives you a lot more breathing room. This trade was a small micro lot, so it would take hundreds of pips movements to get margin called and blow up that $1000 on each account. Lets now use a different position size to truly understand why retail traders blow up accounts and is the reason why trading can be dangerous. This time instead of opening a micro lot of '0.01' on our $1000 dollar demo accounts, lets open a position size much larger, 5 lots. Remember we only have $1000 and we are about to open a position much larger relative to our capital ( which we should never do because we can't afford to do that ) the 20:1 probably wont even let you place that trade if you don't have enough margin as collateral or if you could open the position you would have a very tiny amount of free margin left over, meaning a small pip movement against you will instantly blow up your $1000 account. On the 500:1 account you wouldn't need to put up as much margin as collateral with more free margin if the trade goes bad, but again a small movement could blow up your account. In this example, both accounts were dangerous because the lack of understanding position sizes, opening a position you can't afford to open. This is what the true danger is, not the leverage. Even in the second example, the higher leverage would "margin call" you out later. So i would go as far to say that lower leverage is more dangerous for you because it margin calls you out faster and just by having a lower leverage doesn't stop you from opening big positions that can blow you up in a 5 pip movement anymore, any leverage size is dangerous if you're opening positions you can't afford to open. This is also taking into consideration that no risk management is being used, with risk management higher leverage is even more powerful. ASIC believes lowering leverage will stop people opening positions that they can't afford. When the reality is no matter how much capital you have $500, $1000, $5000, $50,000, $500,000, $5,000,000. You don't open position sizes that will blow that capital up completely with small movements. The same thing can happen on a 20:1 or 500:1 account. Leverage is a tool, use it, if your on a lower leverage already such as 20:1, 30:1 it means your country has been regulated and you already have harder trading conditions. Just remember higher leverage allows you to open larger position sizes in total for the amount of money you own, but the issue is NOT that your using the higher leverage but because you are opening positions you can't afford, for what ever reason that is, the only fix for this is education and will not be fixed by simply lowing leverage, since you can just as easy blow up your account on low leverage just as fast or if not faster. So what is going on? There might ( get your tinfoil hats on ) be more that is involved here, deeper than you think, other agendas to try and stop small time retail traders from making money via OTC products, theories such as governments not wanting their citizens to be traders, rather would prefer you to get out there and work a 9 to 5 instead. Effective ways to do this would be making conditions harder with a much larger barrier of entry and the best way to increase the barrier of entry for retail traders is to limit leverage, lower leverage means you need to put up more money, less breathing room for trades, lower potential. They are limiting your upside potential and the downside stays the same, a blown account is a blow account. Think of leverage as a weapon, a person wielding a butchers knife can probably destroy a person wielding a steak knife, but both knifes can prove fatal. They want to make sure your holding the butter knife then tell you to butcher a cow with it. 30:1 leverage is still workable and can still be profitable, but not as profitable as 500:1 accounts. This is why they are allowing professionals to use high leverage, this gives them another edge over successful retail traders who will still be trying to butcher a cow with a butter knife, while they are slaying limbs off the cow with machetes. It's a way to hamstring you and keep you away rather than trying to "protect" you. The real danger is not leverage, they are barking up the wrong tree, how convenient to be barking up the very tree most retail traders don't fully understand ( leverage) , pass legislation to make trading conditions harder and at the same time push the narrative that trading is dangerous by making it even harder. A full circle strategy to make your trading conditions worse, so you don't succeed. Listen carefully especially if you trade with any of the brokers that have provided their submissions to ASIC. Brokers want to seem like they are on your side and so far some of the submissions ( i haven't read them all ) have brokers willing to drop their leverage down to 30:1 because they know by dropping the leverage down it will start margin calling out their clients at a much faster rate, causing more blown up accounts / abandoned accounts with residual margin called funds, but they also know that if they make trading environments too hard less people will trade or even worse move their funds elsewhere offshore to unregulated brokers that offer higher leverage. Right now it's all just a proposal, but as governments expand and continue to gain more control over it's citizens, it's just a matter of time till it's law, it's up to you to be vocal about it, let your broker know that if they drop their leverage, you're out, force them to fight for you. If you have any more information related to this, or have anything to add, post below. I'm not an expert at this technical law talk, i know that i do well with 500:1 leverage and turn profits with it, it would be harder for me to do on a lower leverage, this is the reason for my post. All related documents HERE CP-322 ( Consultation paper 322 ) & Submissions from brokers and others. https://asic.gov.au/regulatory-resources/find-a-document/consultation-papers/cp-322-product-intervention-otc-binary-options-and-cfds/
Is this the biggest shift in trading technology since the internet? - Andrew Baxter
Over my years in the broking industry – coming up for almost two decades soon, much has changed. The move from full service phone broking to online was one of the biggest. Self directed trading with orders executed online, seemed the way forward especially with the lower fees. However, anyone who has been down that path understands a few issues.
Investing time to watch markets
Investing time to develop a strategy
Develop the skills to be able to execute your trades
Manage the trade by watching it carefully
Run the risk of making a mistake placing the order
As soon as you pick up the phone, there is no advice
What happens when you are on holiday
There are plenty more, as I am sure you know!
Then of course there is the outsourcing of some of the “heavy lifting”. Perhaps you subscribe to an advisory service, newsletter or signal provider. Part of the work is done – the research and the trade ideas. However, some only provide entry, not exits – arguably the most important part. Then there is the hassle of trying to place the exact same trade – maybe too late or maybe hard to place – have a crack at placing a butterfly! What if you are busy and miss the email or report? If any of the above resonates with you – well you are going to love the new Trade Me App.
Trade Me App
The new App enables you to do it all instantly, easily and with all the information you need in one place. The Trade Me App bridges the gap between trade recommendations or advisory services and your trading account. Through EasyTrade® you are now able to take the trade recommendations, while on the go, through 3 easy steps.
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With EasyTrade®, all the hard work is outsourced. Our analysts have done the heavy lifting identifying the entry, exit and stop levels, for every trade. All the information that you need to make an effective and informed decision is provided for you. For example, you can watch a video showing our live analysis, directly from the Trading floor, or alternatively, check out the chart and trade levels. The app provides all the information in a very clear and simple format.
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The app is still in Beta. IE there likely will be some bugs, but we are working on them.
The price for the full package is set cheap - $22 for this Financial Year and includes 10,000 trades IF you purchase before EOFY. Afterwards the price will be higher (TBA).
We have had a Chartered Accountant go through the platform to check for whether the output would work for them.
If you have trades that are from an exchange that is not supported send the exchange and your export file to us ([email protected] - include your username/account email so we know who we are talking to)! Worst case scenario we can manually import them for you, but best case we will add support for the exchange pretty quickly. We don't guarantee this service level will last forever, but in the early days we can be very hands on.
Please use the Feature Request page when signed in (free users too) - voting and requesting new features does impact where we put our development resources to.
Future developments (aside from more exchange integrations):
Trader vs CGT differentiation
Mining support (coming soontmbutseriously )
Fork Management (also coming soontm)
Multiple Forex Rate Providers (primarily for accountants)
Specific exchange rates (E.g. Binance) rather than averages - Pending ATO confirmation of what is defined as a reliable source of pricing.
Estimated current portfolio value (I think most people have their own apps for this though - not a high priority unless more people request it)
Accountant Portal (to share data with your accountant in a read-only simplified format)
Popular (think top 10) cryptocurrency address tracking (to automatically import and track expenses)
Coming Later: Integration with popular accounting platforms (Xero, Quickbooks, MYOB).
A final notice - our legal department has made sure I include this disclaimer: Sublime IP and our services do not provide tax, financial or legal advice. Seek a professional for that! We have an accountant already listed on the platform who is versed in cryptocurrency and more soon to come. Kind regards, Nathan P.S. Testers - your accounts have full access and are limited to 100,000 trades. Thank you to those who gave feedback and found bugs.
Hi Guys, It has been a couple of weeks since an update. Short version is I wasn't happy with it and wanted to rebuild and then I managed to get sick (and still am)! Right now 20 people have been given access, but I decided to post a few screenshots here as well to get more feedback. If you are in the waiting list I am adding 5 a day-ish so it won't be too long.
The Main Portfolio view is ultimately what you want for tax time. However, to have complete numbers you need to link your sell trades to the buy trades first. You do this in the Balance pages for each coin. Right now you can either manually link sell trades to buy trades or you can adopt a FIFO method which over-rides everything. LIFO and other methods will be added come tax time. I would also like to give a bit more detail how we get AUD values - we hit a (paid) API that provides granular information on pricing. When I say granular I mean spot prices to the second. Let's say we are trying to find the AUD price of XRP - the app will attempt to find an AUD price from BTCmarkets first, if data isn't available then it will find a USD price and if that data isn't available (typical for smaller coins) then it finds the BTC price and then converts BTC to USD/AUD. Any USD values are converted to AUD using the daily XE USD-AUD Forex rate. We basically want to attempt to get the most accurate data possible. With that said, we have received some suggestions to use free data as well - even though it is hourly pricing - and offer the more accurate data as an added service. I would love to hear more opinions on that. I will be making this information clearer at a later stage - right now it gets automatically converted and the end-user doesn't see too much except the final AUD price and (if applicable) USD price. This tax tool will be a paid service Those who are testing the service and providing feedback will be able to continue to use it for free in perpetuity, but this is being built as a paid tool and will be priced similarly to bitcoin.tax With that said though there are two things worth noting:
There will be at least two discounts I know of - one of which will be small for being part of this subreddit and using a code (to be supplied later) and a larger discount that will be available for purchases before EOFY to provide an incentive for early adoption.
Immediate goals right now are to setup some simple onboarding videos, add IR & Bitfinex imports, be able to export the data in CSV and PDF formats and a feature request/voting platform to guide development and keep it focused on community wants.
Advice on first build appreciated, upgrading from Console and Mac
Have you read the sidebar and rules? (Please do) Yes What is your intended use for this build? The more details the better. Been using a MacBook Pro for a few years now and have decided to upgrade. This build is going to be used for gaming, general uni work as well as Forex and Stock trading. If gaming, what kind of performance are you looking for? (Screen resolution, framerate, game settings) Looking for solid performance on max setting in games such as Rainbow Six, Battlefield 1, PUBG, GTA V. Minimum 1440p. I intend on using an Ultrawide and perhaps adding on more monitors in a few years potentially (only for trading though, will only game on one monitor) What is your budget (ballpark is okay)? 4-5k AUD (PC and Peripherals). I am aiming to build a good pc that will last many years without too much upgrading. In what country are you purchasing your parts? Australia Post a draft of your potential build here (specific parts please). Consider formatting your parts list. Don't ask to be spoonfed a build (read the rules!). PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant
Provide any additional details you wish below. Due to the current state of GPU prices I intend on using the integrated graphics until the release of new cards at which point I’ll either get a 1080ti for ‘cheaper’ hopefully or pick up the new card. I definitely wouldn’t mind a fair bit of RGB because it adds the option of variety. Need help deciding between the Black and White or Black variant of the h700i. Also not certain on the mouse, was also looking at the g502, open to anything though. Will be using the SSD for Boot Up and Documents/Apps. HDD for storing games. Any advice or opinions on any component/peripheral in the build would be extremely helpful. Thanks NOTE: You do not have to follow this format, but please be sure to answer these questions. Please do not ask to simply be given a build. You are welcome to delete this section.
What is your intended use for this build? The more details the better. Solely for trading stocks/shares/forex using NinjaTrader 8 If gaming, what kind of performance are you looking for? (Screen resolution, FPS, game settings) Eventually handle 6-8 monitors. What is your budget (ballpark is okay)? AU$1000 In what country are you purchasing your parts? Australia, NSW Post a draft of your potential build here (specific parts please). Consider formatting your parts list. Don't ask to be spoonfed a build (read the rules!). Have been considering Workstations with Dual Xeons (X5660, e5 2670) and also 5th Gen i7's but unsure if I'm heading in the right direction? Would a set up like this be powerful enough? Dual Xeon X5660 2.8Ghz (12 CPU Cores) 24GB RAM 256GB SSD Nvidia Quadro FX380 x3 Any help would be appreciated. NOTE: You do not have to follow this format, but please be sure to answer these questions. Please do not ask to simply be given a build. You are welcome to delete this section.
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